Mining?

Discussion in 'General' started by Pizza, Jun 1, 2017.

  1. Pizza

    Pizza I liket the pizza nomnom

    so I read there is no more hatching/seeding, will there be any sort of "mining" or processing or transactions?
     
  2. Gedke

    Gedke Beta Testers

  3. Fuserleer

    Fuserleer Radix Founder Staff Member

    Mining????? Thats so 2012 bruh!
     
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  4. Jazzer

    Jazzer The Dutch connection Staff Member

    I'll try and give a bit more extensive explanation of what's going on. In BTC and derived ecosystems mining basically serves 2 goals. First is to secure the distributed ledger by demanding a 'Proof of Work' to add transactions to the ledger. The second is to generate and distribute new supply. The idea that you can do both at the same time is the stroke of genius by Satoshi Nakamoto that allowed the creation of a completely distributed digital currency system in the first place. While revolutionary, the system is not without it's disadvantages. The main disadvantages are:
    • Poor scaling. Everyone needs to know everything and the data traffic architecture is not very efficient either.
    • It consumes copious amounts of energy. Less so with 'Proof of X' where X is not work, but all those systems have their challenges.
    • The distributions of new tokens is pretty clonky (fixed distribution pattern, winner of block gets all)
    • It actually tends towards centralization due to the advantage of scale that large mining corporations have over Joe Random with a just a mining machine in his basement.

    Enter Radix.

    There is no more blockchain. The security model for the ledger (FABRIC) is completely different, details on that later due to patents being under review. Suffice to say it scales a lot better. Because it doesn't use blocks the distribution of new tokens doesn't need to be coupled to those blocks anymore. We used that freedom to develop a custom distribution system which is much 'fairer'. It rewards those who maintain the network/services as well as the users of the network. Ie, the whole ecosystem. The precise distribution mechanism is also being patented so we can't give out more details at this time.

    What does this mean if you're a miner? It means that you can forget about using your ASICS for Radix. Energy consumption per GHash is not going to help here. Of course we're still going to need those service nodes to maintain the network, so there is certainly an opportunity to contribute/earn. It should be a much less specialized business than mining, so expect Joe Random to join in as well and be competitive with his run-of-the-mill hardware.
     
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  5. Fuserleer

    Fuserleer Radix Founder Staff Member

    Such a great post by Jazzer!
     
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  6. Pizza

    Pizza I liket the pizza nomnom

    And who's fault is that Dan huh! I'm going to make a wiki page or when radix becomes major and has its own wiki, a new entry for

    Dan Time and a brief definition ; )
     
  7. Fuserleer

    Fuserleer Radix Founder Staff Member

    When Radix becomes major, you'll thank me for putting so much time, care, attention and soul into this and not giving into demands / sarcastic taunting :p

    In the meantime everything else will STILL be trying to catch up with 2012 tech! It hasn't progressed in 4 years and its not going to any time soon.

    You're welcome! :)
     
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  8. lovely89

    lovely89 Beta Testers

    Not to be picky but iota is an entire magnitude ahead of blockchain tech. If it gets a network effect going and integration with large businesses, it'll be much harder to close in on than blockchain tech. Since one of iota's benefits are as an oracle, the price stability doesn't enter the picture. This makes the other benefits of Radix, although superior, quite negligible for mass adoption. As we just need scalability right now and more than 6 tps, not 500 000+
     
    Jazzer likes this.
  9. Pizza

    Pizza I liket the pizza nomnom

    So what kind of hardware are we talking about running services now? I remember buying SSDs 4 years ago, what more important now? CPU GPU ram ssd?

    Also, I keep hearing about patents, is there a thread that goes deeper into this? Like how does Radix live as a patented private company and a decentralized service to all people to use?
     
  10. Anima

    Anima Founders Staff Member


    For mass adoption, you need WAY more than 6 tps, not just a magnitude or two higher, but even more. VISA alone is 2000 tps and growing. It can peak at 24,000 tps - yes 24 thousand tps. Alipay is way bigger and have been reported to process in excess of 100,000 tps on some days (175k tps peaks) http://uk.businessinsider.com/singles-day-alibaba-sales-2016-11?r=US&IR=T

    And we are just talking two companies, not all the intermediary services. Try and add SWIFT messsages, IoT and so on and we will definitely need more than IOTA's scaleability down the road. IOTA is a definite improvement, but is still a long ways from the "end game".
     
  11. Lloyd

    Lloyd Founders Staff Member

    GPU not used
    RAM 2GB+ to run, but more is recommended to run multiple services
    SSD recommended
    Bandwidth the higher the better
    CPU the more logical threads the better
     
  12. Sharky

    Sharky Founders Staff Member

    Iota is still years away from real world software AND hardware adoption. If you look at the iota development roadmap (https://blog.iota.org/iota-development-roadmap-74741f37ed01) all they have is a concept and a java client that can send iotas around. Everything else is in the research or early coding stage.

    Radix is on the END of its development. Dan has solved a myriad of conceptual problems over the years. We will see massive real world usage by the end of next year.
     
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  13. lovely89

    lovely89 Beta Testers

    'Everything else'? I think you really down played what has been built, tested and is running on mainnet.

    Two of the founders David and Dom see Radix as a joke. I for one know they are misguided on this. The other founder cfb (aka bcnxt) fully understands the importance of Radix but he writes it off because he knows the importance of first market movers and Dan's obsession with perfection. Something of which iota has adapted too.

    I'm a firm and long term believer in Radix but for the first time, I think something might grab and hold a fraction of Radix's market share if Radix continues to delay.
     
  14. Fuserleer

    Fuserleer Radix Founder Staff Member

    "Two of the founders David and Dom see Radix as a joke."

    Then they are either naive, ignorant, or just stupid. If I was them and saw me, patiently hacking away at this for 4 years, regardless what I thought of the tech or what I'd seen, or what had or not been produced...I certainly wouldn't see 4 years of "presence" as a joke. I'd respect the commitment even if that resulted in failure.

    Like Anonymint / TPTB...I think the guy has some serious personal issues...but I don't think he is a joke. He's been around as long as me (and produced much less), but his ideas are sound, he just hasn't pulled it all together yet for one reason or another. I respect him, even though he's obviously crazy!

    Thankfully though I couldn't care less what they (or anyone similar) thinks about anything! :)

    I would like to point out though that I'm not obsessed with perfection. Perfection is making sure that every tiny detail is as good as it can be, and that certainly isn't the case here. My commitment has been to create tech that is ahead of the game, solves the incumbent problems, can stand the test of time and does what nothing else can.

    What that is, is R&D, not perfection obsession.

    Otherwise Elon Musk must be obsessed with the "perfection" of getting a rocket to land where it was launched from....
     
    Last edited: Jun 5, 2017
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  15. Fuserleer

    Fuserleer Radix Founder Staff Member

    In fact let me take this is step further so everyone is very clear on my view point.

    20 years down the line, none of this current crop are going to be remembered for anything other than Bitcoin and perhaps Ethereum (mainly for the drama).

    NOTHING else is enough of a step forward for them to make such a difference that they are remembered like Bitcoin. Bitcoin was such a huge innovation and game changer even if its dead in 20 years, it doesn't matter, it made enough of an impact.

    All the other offerings in this space right now provide nothing more than a small improvement on a single problem.

    Ethereum gave us a slightly better scripting language. It still cant scale, its consensus (POW and POS) is still subject to centralization, its currency is still volatile, all its integration points still rely on 3rd parties.

    Monero and ZCash gave us slightly better anonymity, but they still have all the same problems.

    Iota gives us slightly better scalability, but it still doesn't SOLVE the problem its focusing on or any of the others.

    No project right now has, nor aims to solve completely any of the prevalent problems that Bitcoin has, they are all can kickers.

    Radix solves them all, every single one. And thats why it will also be remembered in 20 years regardless of if its dead or not, because its a game changer in the same way that Bitcoin was.

    I didn't and don't want to be remembered for a baby step, I want to be remembered for a giant's leap!
     
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  16. Sharky

    Sharky Founders Staff Member

    CFB is the only nice and really knowledgeable guy in the iota team. David is an asshole that has banned a shitload of people when they gave constructive critisism. Have you seen anybody banned here for dubious reasons? That should tell you something.

    Dan doesn't always look for perfection. It seems only that way because the 2013 emunie client looked like a dream compared to the 2017 iota client. You have to read the iota whitepaper in order to use the client, otherwise you will try to double spend after 5 minutes.
     
    Last edited: Jun 6, 2017
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  17. ScheroedingersRat

    ScheroedingersRat New Member

    There is a lot of discussion at the IOTA community about IOTA-Radix. Someone told me Dave was not amused about the TPS sheet :D because in his mind it`s wrong and IOTA does much more TPS especially if the network gets bigger the TPS increases with the network size. I am not sure about this, i am not such close to the IOTA project and the technical details.

    https://twitter.com/radixdlt/status/867670809686548480

    regards
     
  18. CryptoScalper

    CryptoScalper Beta Testers

    All Dave had to do was to provide the correct figure for the graph, especially after it was explained to him that it was NOT depicting limitations.
     
  19. Rickard

    Rickard Beta Testers

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  20. Pizza

    Pizza I liket the pizza nomnom

    so how much ram does each service need to run? was looking at some cloud instances and thinking would low powered machines x100 be better than less decent sized machines?
     

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